Talk:Flint
Template:Flint What I have done here may appear redundant with the links on the main article, but I would love to do something like with Dax to each and every identity taken by Flint. If we are agreed that each of Flints Identities should be linked together like this then we should unlink the list in the main article. --TOSrules 00:34, 3 Aug 2005 (UTC) : I agree, something needed to be done with the character with many names. I'm not sure if this is it, exactly, but its definately a move in the right direction. --Alan del Beccio 01:03, 3 Aug 2005 (UTC) I made the neat little template (found at Template:Aliases of Flint for editing) to add to the pages. I'm sort of wonder that if we decide to keep it, that we disambiguate Brack and Akharin from Flint. --Alan del Beccio 01:26, 3 Aug 2005 (UTC) ::Brack and Akharin is an issue. I am sure with most characters with multiple names won't need this method. But in the case of Flint, his identities are over a long period of time and since most have there own articles should be interlinked. --TOSrules 06:41, 3 Aug 2005 (UTC) BTW thanks for entertaining this idea --TOSrules 06:45, 3 Aug 2005 (UTC) : I altered the template slightly, I also pulled Brack out of the article, I just didnt have the motovation to dissect Akharin from it. --Alan del Beccio 08:51, 3 Aug 2005 (UTC) ::Well Akhraan is the best candidate for his own article. Of all his lives, he describes this one in the most detail. He describes where and when he was born, that he was a bully, I think he says he was a soldier, and his death. These details are the life of Akhraan. --TOSrules 06:22, 4 Aug 2005 (UTC) I'm not sure adding Flint back to the template was very productive. Seeing that the title of the template is "Previous aliases of Flint" and being that Flint is linked at that point, it seems redundant to have him listed in the template twice, much less the fact that Flint isn't technically a "previous alias". --Alan del Beccio 06:35, 4 Aug 2005 (UTC) :Sorry but I found without him linked somewhere navigation becomes poor. I was on another Identity and couldn't get a link to Flint, except for Akharaan which might not be a redirect soon. --TOSrules 06:39, 4 Aug 2005 (UTC) I already wrote Akhraan, however, by all means, change it as necessary. In other news, youre wrong about him not being linked in the template in the way i originally had it. What I was saying, was that it was already linked in the navigation in the title "Previous aliases of Flint". So having it in both the title and in the "list" was redundant. --Alan del Beccio 06:58, 4 Aug 2005 (UTC) See: :: In that respects I may have been wrong to put that link in, but you know the color you have do not work well together. I can hardly se the text on top the link appears almost invisible. The same problem can be found on Dax. --TOSrules 07:17, 4 Aug 2005 (UTC) Androids In TNG it is said that Data and his "brothers" are the most sophisticated androids ever. but the one created by flint doesn't seem inferior, it is even capable of emotion. Does that mean that by TNG era, history has lost all record of it? --Rami : I believe Kirk told Flint that he was going to keep Flint's secret, and this probably would cover Rayna Kapec as well. Kirk has a knack for not telling anyone of the historical figures he meets (Flint, Khan, Cochrane).--Tim Thomason 17:59, 3 Nov 2005 (UTC) * They are also different types of androids. I think there was a discussion on this once on Flare, but I'm too lazy to look it up, so if youre interested you know where to find it. ;) --FuturamaGuy 19:41, 3 Nov 2005 (UTC) * In VOY Janeway says it is rumoured that Kirk met Leonardo da Vinci, but it is all just a rumour. So it is possible that Kirk promised Flint not to tell his secret. People began to rumour things about Flint's true identity, but no one could prove anything. **Well, not rumoured, the dialogue actually goes like this: :::''Janeway: "James T. Kirk claimed he met him although the evidence is less than conclusive."'' ::So it rather seems that Kirk did tell people he met Leonardo and they didn't believe him ;-) --Jörg 16:20, 29 August 2006 (UTC) Immortal? Since the article states that Flint eventually dies, isn't refering to him as "an immortal human" a bit inaccurate? I realize that he was called "immortal" on the show, but this was before he discovers he is dying. If I do change the article, I am not sure whether "previously immortal" or "extremely long-lived" is more appropriate. Suggestions are appreciated. --Commodore Sixty-Four 12:11, 2 June 2006 (UTC) Flint chronology I have to say, I love the Flint Chronology, but does it belong here or on Akraan? --TOSrules 05:04, 5 Aug 2005 (UTC) * Hmm, my thoughts were that, it was as Flint that the history was revealed. However, I suppose we could always copy it to Akraan and have it on both, as an overview. Certainly wouldn't be the first time we have duplicated info around here. --Alan del Beccio 05:22, 5 Aug 2005 (UTC) I wonder what other memebers think. --TOSrules 07:26, 5 Aug 2005 (UTC) ::Three years later but a question about this. Has anything ever been put forward about what he was doing in ? Flint was obviously alive, but under what alias who knows... -FleetCaptain 21:34, 22 January 2008 (UTC) Events during Flint's life Just a thought, but perhaps these can be merged in: 1484 1893 1930 , 1957 1967 , 1968 1969 1986 1992 Eugenics Wars 2000 2024 2063 2151 2156 Earth-Romulan War -FleetCaptain 23:16, 22 January 2008 (UTC) : Somewhat rhetorical, but were they all referenced in the episode he appeared in, as the rest of the stuff in the chronology is? --Alan del Beccio 23:26, 22 January 2008 (UTC) Nope, not in the episode. I have an idea of how to do it which wouldnt break the rules. Main goal would be to show he was living when the events took place. I think it is very neat that in , when Kirk and his gang were walking around San Francisco, Flint was somewhere on Earth (Khan was too, BTW). Just a neat tie-in that I am trying to make within canon. -FleetCaptain 00:50, 23 January 2008 (UTC) : I guess I wasn't clear. These recently added reference haves about ZERO to do with Flint. They do not reference Flint, nor does Flint influence the events, they just happen while he was alive, as again, this article is about Flint, and the "chronology" was suppose to be something akin to the biological timeline @ Christopher Pike's page, all direct time references, and not the hodge-podge timeline of this and that, that this has turned into. --Alan del Beccio 16:34, 24 January 2008 (UTC) I think you are incorrect about it having "zero to do with Flint". If you see what I've done, I stated that people who Flint would later meet travled back to another era where a past version of Flint also lived. Then there is the general stuff like he lived to see all World Wars and the Eugenics Wars plus background notes about episode flash backs which occured during his life. I think its coming along rather nicely. I plan to ask for a peer review when its all put together and then possibly go for a Featured Article. Flint has always been one of my most favorite characters. -FleetCaptain 16:38, 24 January 2008 (UTC) ::I have to agree with Alan. There is a lot of material that needs to be trimmed. Did Flint ever discuss or mention the Eugenics wars or Khan? If not, it doesn't belong. I know he didn't say anything about the Millennium Gate, so that definitely needs to come out. Just because they happened during his life doesn't mean they need mention in the article. We aren't mentioning Chronowerx here either. --OuroborosCobra talk 16:56, 24 January 2008 (UTC) I'm fine with trimming, this is after all a big expansion project and help from others is welcome. Does everyone agree I'm doing a pretty good job so far? As for the issues, I think mentioning that he lived through key historical events and the time travel of people who Flint would later meet should absolutely be included. As well as ital background notes about some of the episodes which have flashbacks during Flint's life (but, yes, not all of them like the 1 and a half minute appearance of DS9 characters in "Past Tense"). -FleetCaptain 17:01, 24 January 2008 (UTC) : I removed this (too much to list) as being entirely...speculated, for lack of a better word. None of this was ever stated in said episode, nor is it relevant to the character. Sure, I lived during the Gulf War, or my dad during Vietnam, but I wouldn't ever expect to read any of that in either of our bios, esp. while not have knowing participated is said events, nor ever encountered someone who was in the same space-time as me, but whom I happened not to see. --Alan 05:59, 5 July 2008 (UTC) I agree with some of the deletions, but I think you were a bit overzealous. A lot of what you removed is good background data, especially data about Pollack, time travel events of characters who would meet or had met Flint, and data about him being alive during Enterprise. And there really wasn't any need to cut pictures which were simply there to make the article look better. Also, I could think of a more polite edit summary than "removed speculative riff raff" http://memory-alpha.org/en/index.php?title=Flint&diff=856744&oldid=854516 considering the time I spent on this article. How about "removed disputed material"? That would have been a bit more polite. I responded in detail down below. -FC 13:14, 5 July 2008 (UTC) Khan and Flint Oh, yeah, my thoughts on Khan. Both he and Flint lived during the 20th century, were both alive in 1986 when the gang traveled back in time, and both were encountered by Kirk in the 2260s. Mentioning that as a connection in the article shouldnt be a problem. I *guess* that could go the way of a background note, if people insist, but I think it works in well the way it is now. -FleetCaptain 17:03, 24 January 2008 (UTC) :Well, we're not playing "Six degress of Captain Kirk", here... ;) Unless a specific connection has been made between individuals or events, they shouldn't be listed in the chronology section. After all, that's what we have chronology articles for, right? -- Cid Highwind 21:22, 24 January 2008 (UTC) I think the overall justification is that both Flint and Khan lived in the 20th century and they both encountered Captain Kirk in the 23rd. No other Original Series characters can make that claim so that is an important connection between the two. If it becomes a big issue after the article is finished with its expansion, I guess a background note would be the solution although I still see no great deal in simply stating that Flint was alive during the Eugenics Wars and, like Khan, he would later bump into Kirk in the 23rd century. I also think the producers of would have done us all a big favor if they had added Kirk saying the line "You know Bones, do you remember Flint and Khan? They're both alive...somewhere...right now." But of course they didnt! -FleetCaptain 21:31, 24 January 2008 (UTC) ::You're still playing "six degrees of separation". It doesn't matter if they lived at the same time or both met Kirk, they were not described as having met each other or having anything to do with each other. If you want a fun note, put it on your user page. It doesn't belong here. --OuroborosCobra talk 21:38, 24 January 2008 (UTC) :::I agree. Without something to back it up, it is pure speculation and shouldn't be on an article. You could also say that Khan, Flint, and Shannon O'Donnell were all alive at the same time so Janeway should have mentioned it. Where would such speculation stop?--31dot 21:44, 24 January 2008 (UTC) Oh My God! The man who Shannon O'Donnell his with her car was Flint!!!! (Just kidding...I see what you mean) :-) -FleetCaptain 22:44, 24 January 2008 (UTC) I think the following would be a good b-ground note compromise: :Flint has the unique distinction of living in the 20th century and meeting Captain James Kirk in the 23rd. The only other Original Series character who did this was Khan Noonien Singh I honestly dont understand where the feeling is coming from that this isnt noteworthy; after all: of all the Original Series characters Flint and Khan were the only ones who fit this bill. That should be written down somewhere. I've heard all the views, though. Thanks for the inputs. -FleetCaptain 21:51, 24 January 2008 (UTC) I just cut out all the Khan material per the concerns here. Although I see nothing wrong with simply stating that Flint was alive when the Eugenics Wars occurred since that was a major historical event as established in other episodes. Thanks again for the varied inputs. -FleetCaptain 21:57, 24 January 2008 (UTC) Different Appearances I don't know how to add this to the article, but there is a perfectly logical solution to how Flint could have been so many people who looked different...they /didn't/ look different. I'll imagine that after the invention of photography, and especially after it entered popular use, Flint would have started laying low. Improving ID technology that makes it more and more impossible (or extremely vexing to our genius) Flint to ditch and switch identities to hide his long age, finally prompted him to leave Earth for a private planet. Before photographs though, there were only portraits...with painters that takes varying degrees of artistic licenses. There are different physical attributes deemed most attractive to men in different eras...or are considered appropriate to their persona. When Flint was Alexander the artists would have beautified him according to Greek standards of male beauty. When Flint was Leonardo of many talents...he would have been drawn more like Merlin. Shakespeare...Shakespeare's portrait wasn't painted until the 19th century! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4471515.stm - T'Sura 17:32, 18 June 2008 (UTC) :Interesting post, but none of that is canon and as such should be added to this article. -FC 17:54, 18 June 2008 (UTC) ::Just wanted to clarify the FC meant it should not be added to this article. ;) --From Andoria with Love 07:42, 19 June 2008 (UTC) Remastered Deleted Scene Any mention of Flint now being mortal was removed from the Remastered Version. In fact, McCoy's entire portion of the closing scene was removed. Therefor, in the "Remastered canon" Flint is still immortal. 04:54, 23 June 2008 (UTC)JayS :No, he isn't. No scenes have been deleted in the remastered content. What has happened is that while airing on TV, they have been cut to pieces since they are being aired as syndication, where stuff is always cut to pieces to put in more advertisements. The same can be seen on TNG, DS9, and VOY reruns. Watch the remastered releases when they are on DVD, you will see the scene again. --OuroborosCobra talk 05:06, 23 June 2008 (UTC) Massive gutting of article I don't disagree with cutting some of the material, but the data about Flint being around when the time travel incidents from other series took place is canon and there should be nothing wrong with having it in the the article as background material. Also the reference to Reginald Pollack was very much canon and a statement about when he lived should absolutely be included. Also nothing wrong with saying that Flint was alive during Enterprise, especially since there was a 5th season episode in the works about him. And why cut the photos which are simply there to make the article look better? I plan to restore some of this, just to let everyone know. Also, if such large material is removed, we should put it on the talk page to work with later. -FC 13:08, 5 July 2008 (UTC) :Please don't - for the most part, that is... images that have nothing do do with Flint, but just illustrate something that Flint might have encountered should not be in the article. For the same reason, even information about events that Flint might have encountered do not really have a place here - that's just filler material. After all, we'd otherwise have to duplicate our whole "Earth history" article. Last but not least, the episode apparently doesn't even state that Flint lived as Pollock'', just that he has an image created by Pollock in his possession. We shouldn't speculate too much about that fact. -- Cid Highwind 13:16, 5 July 2008 (UTC) Purged Section from article Placed here to work with to restore some of this data which may very be canon. -FC 13:08, 5 July 2008 (UTC) :In Data and company are transported back in time to San Francisco in 1893. During this year, Flint would have been living in Austria "finishing up" his years as Johannes Brahms. In the 20th century, Flint would see the horrors that mankind was capable of as he witnessed several major wars beginning with World War I in 1914. Flint’s identities during the 20th century are for the most part unknown; however in 1930 (unbeknownst to Flint) two time travelers would appear in New York City who Flint would encounter three hundred and sixty nine years later. The two were James T. Kirk and Spock, sent back in time by the Guardian of Forever. The two eventually returned to their own time and, from the perspective of Kirk and Spock, they would meet Flint only two years later. ( ) World War II began in 1939 and Flint also was witness to the start of the Earth Cold War in the 1950s. Flint also saw the launch of man’s first satellite (Sputnik) in 1957, and shortly thereafter a group of Vulcans crash landed on Earth in Carbon Creek, Pennsylvania. Flint was not involved with this "unofficial" first contact but would also live to see the formal first contact between Humans and Vulcans in 2063. ( , ) Sometime between 1960 and 1990, Flint would acquire a painting by Reginald Pollack or perhaps even lived as Pollack himself. Three more time travel incidents would occur during this period indirectly related to Flint, this being when the traveled back in time twice to the 1960s and some twenty years later the Enterprise command crew journeyed to the city of San Francisco in 1986. During the later time travel trip, James T. Kirk had already met Flint in the future but did not seek him out in the past. ( , , :If Flint had lived as Reginald Pollack, this would have been his main identity for most of the 20th century and the identity he held during the time travel incidents where ''Star Trek characters traveled back to this era. The real Pollack lived from 1924 to 2001.'' The Eugenics Wars occurred in the 1990s, however what Flint was doing during this period of time is entirely unknown. Key Dates *1833 - 1897: Lives as Johannes Brahms *1914: Witnesses the start of World War I *1930: James T. Kirk and Spock, who would met Flint in 2269, travel back in time. *1939-1945: Flint witnesses World War II *1957:Witnesses the launch of Sputnik. *Late 20th century (circa 1965-1990): Acquires a work of art produced by Reginald Pollack *1986: The command crew of the USS Enterprise who, from their perspective, encountered Flint seventeen years before, travel back in time to San Francisco. *1992-1996: Flint witnesses the Eugenics Wars *2000: The 20th century ends. Flint's activities in the 21st and 22nd century are largely unknown as he did not speak of who he was or what was he doing during this period when encountered by Starfleet officers a hundred years later. Flint did have the distinction of being a human being who witnessed all three World Wars since World War III began in 2033. This perhaps shaped Flint's attitude in the years to come as he saw Earth as an extremely barbaric and savage place. Sometime in the 2100s, Flint acquired a bottle of Saurian brandy. He was also presumably still on Earth when the United Federation of Planets was founded in 2161 although, seventy years later, Flint would leave due to "the unpleasantness of life on Earth and the company of people". ( ) :An interesting fact is that Flint would have been living during the entire run of ''Star Trek: Enterprise; since its cancellation, several writers have suggested that a story involving Flint was in the works for the unmade fifth season.'' Key dates * 2033: World War III begins * 2063: Vulcans make first contact with humans * 2161: The United Federation of Planets is founded * 2169: A bottle of Saurian brandy from this year is acquired by Kirk. * An interesting tie-in to most Star Trek episodes involving time travel is that a past version of Flint would have been alive when the Star Trek characters were back in the past. This is especially true for the 20th century, where characters from every major Star Trek series and motion picture have at one point journeyed.